i mean, we have a -- we have a big problem in terms of the deficits we're running. but let me just ask you this crucial question about where we're going to go from here, grover. because i know you have this kind of soul-searching moment in front of you. where you can keep going ahead and saying no revenue, right? has to be revenue-neutral. and you might lose. or you can start to bend a little bit. are you going to have to start to bend? >> well, i'm in favor of more revenue. if you talk about the tax reform that speaker boehner has talked about in the letter that he and all the republican leadership sent to obama asking him to get serious about spending restraint, which he hasn't done yet -- >> but can i just clarify -- >> reduce rates and broaden the base. >> it didn't say for sure let's reduce rates. >> yes, it did. >> it opened the door to reducing rates -- john boehner has put on the table before he would be willing to raise revenue without cutting rates. >> no, in the context of tax reform, i think the letter is very clear. in the context of tax reform, which r